General Discussion

[Deceit]

Here's the official thread to discuss weakened abilities. Feel free to share any and all of your opinions on nerfing. Are some warranted or not? Which ones stick out the most? How would you handle abilities? Let everyone know!

For me personally, it seems like season three was spent weakening the abilities that were the be-all-end-all. Peter was the big one that I was glad to see. Not only was he the focal point of the first two season finales, but he had a ridiculous set of powers. Fortunately, now he can only have one at a time, making him a bit more like Rogue from X-Men.

The second one is Hiro. Every season starts with his ability being used to setup the plot. They seem to have fixed this by applying the Butterfly Effect, as well as removing Hiro's ability altogether. Now that Hiro has his ability back, he appears to be unable to jump through time. He can simply stop time. I'm a big hater when it comes to time travel, so this is right up my alley. Let's stick to flashbacks (and NO flashforwards).

[Isaac Mendez]

You covered all of the ones I can think of....lol.

[LukkiStar]

I'm a big fan of Peter, but admittedly the first two and a half seasons were way too centered around him. I'm glad that the spotlight was given to a lot of different characters this volume and that there really wasn't one main character. In past volumes, everything had been very Peter or Claire centered, and I'm extremely glad that Claire hasn't been around too much lately.

I think that Peter definitely will get his full powers back some time in the near future though. I mean, they can't just set up the idea of Ando the supercharger and touch-and-go/touch-and-stop baby (I prefer to call the baby walking eclipse  ) and then not fix Peter's powers. Although there are a lot of people that prefer him to be depowered, I think there are a lot more that like him with the multiple powers. Plus you've got to have someone that can be a potential thread to super powerful Sylar.

I'm not quite sure how I feel about Hiro and his powers. His main purpose in the show is comic relief, and he's usually a lot funnier when he can't do things than when he can, if that makes sense. The first three volumes all had something to do with Hiro having a "mission" and majorly screwing it up, setting the plot into motion, more or less. And I'm so glad that Fugitives wasn't like that.
I think that he'll stay with just the time stopping, which is kind of a happy medium. He's sort of boring without ANY powers, but time travel just got to be really annoying after awhile. I don't think the writers want to deal with the confusing-ness of time travel for quite awhile, and I don't blame them.

Speaking of people that are too powerful, what about Matt? He started out just being able to read minds, and now he can actually control minds (which when you think about it could really override ANY other power, even Sylar) and he can paint the future. What's next, flying or something?!

[Emiko Ishimura]

I think that most of the recent ability changes were mostly good changes. Nerfing Peter's ability means putting the es back into Heroes, and it makes things a lot more interesting. Besides, I've grown to like heroes that are not obviously overpowered, which is why I never really liked Pete. However, I do like overpowered villains, thus the reason for my being a fan of Sylar. In typical superhero stories, the hero(es) are always obviously going to defeat the villain, maybe a few setbacks here and there, but at the end of the day you know everything's going to be fine and dandy.

Let's go over a few ability changes that I can recall off the top of my head:

Peter: as I've said, Peter needed that toning down of his ability/abilities. If he is ever to get back his "full" ability, I only hope it's a gradual upgrade. Peter should earn his ability sponge.

Sylar: not really a change, but finding out that he is capable of empathic mimicry really says a great deal about him and what he (as Gabriel) could have become instead of becoming Sylar. Really, really, really glad that his personality conflicts with empathic mimicry, or else we would have two Peters running the show. Right now, we have one Sylar running the show, just the way I like it. 

Hiro: having Hiro completely depowered was a nice change, however temporary. It was great to see Hiro being the sidekick and Ando the hero for once - I love role reversals. I don't mind Hiro not having his time travel back since that aspect of his ability was only used as a "prophecy" device most of the time, or as a toy for Peter. Kind of hoping he regains teleportation but I'll be fine if it takes a while to regain it or never at all.

(edit... forgot someone)

Matt: I don't like him gaining Precognition painting, it doesn't go with his personality (as all original abilities have connections to their users). It shows how the show's writers are still clinging onto the prophecy device that they've been so dependent on. Only Utsu's paste should have activated Precognition, and it should have stopped there. But food for thought: if the paste supposedly adds painting precognition to the one who consumes it, then we "could" see Hiro using it... theoretically. But I hope that does not happen.

As for his developments in Mind Control, I am *very* hyped over it in a good way. Before all the upgrades, he was only a simple mind reader, and that always set his character off into the background while our "main players" Peter and Sylar took the stage. Now Matt can be dangerous just like the big boys, instead of just making weird facial expressions. Moments of kick-ass with Matt's new mind control: Building 26 taking over those agents/guards (whatever). Matt doesn't need an offensive ability when he can make others do things for him instead. Although his mind control is very powerful, luckily it had a few "cons" added to it to not make him overpowered, such as his need for concentration to initiate and maintain the control which mean's he's pretty much a sitting duck when controlling/reading people.

It's Matt's upgrade that makes me hope even more that Peter doesn't get his original ability back. If he has Matt's upgraded telepathy, Sylar's telekinesis, Hiro's time-stop (or teleportation/time-travel if Hiro regains that), Claire's regeneration (grumble), some form of precognition.... we might just go and rename the show back to Peter Petrell: Lone Hero.

[Grim Reapster]

I think it's funny how many of you are so happy over Peter being essentially castrated. You guys go on and on about how the show has always centered on Peter, and how much better it is since he's no longer all-powerful.

And yet most of you just love Sylar, or think it's fine that he can continue to become more and more Powerful. without anyone that can stand a chance against him. There seems to be this huge double standard here. Personally I think this all boils down to 'Bad Boy' syndrome. For some reason a large number of people (especially woman) seem to prefer the bad guy over the good.

And yeah I admit that the show has focused on Peter, and he has done some pretty dumb things. But this, in my opinion, is due to the writers inability to write a good fight scene. That and they think that each season they need to have some huge world threatening catastrophe that has to be avoided. Peter's been stupid because the writers have made him that way in order to fit whatever agenda their stupid plot-line calls for.

Like that ridiculously long scene of him trying to rip the door off of that vault...when he could have just phased through it. Bad writing. In my opinion they just did it for visual effects, without considering if this was something that Peter really would have done.

And by the way this show has focused on Sylar just as much as Peter. Even when his power was gone, they still devoted a lot of screen time to him. Personally I think that they nerfed Peter this season at least partially because they nerfed Sylar for a season.

I've always rooted for good over evil. And since the beginning of the show there have been two characters that have consistently tried to save the world; Peter and Hiro. And no I don't think that they made them too powerful, when you consider how powerful they've made the villain.

But if you guys want to continue rooting for some psycho that rips people's heads open irregardless of gender or age (he was going to kill Molly after all) while spouting sarcastic little one liners like Freddy Kruger....please go right ahead... 

End of rant....


Oh and by the way Emiko, would you prefer that they change the name of the show to "Sylar Conquers the World"?

[Emiko Ishimura]

<snip>
Oh and by the way Emiko, would you prefer that they change the name of the show to "Sylar Conquers the World"?

Yes actually, because I know full well that no matter what happens, the Villains never win. But its fun to see it while it lasts. If the Villains clearly outpower the Heroes, then the struggle for the Heroes to win will be what makes the show worth watching. If the Heroes have the obvious advantage, there is no point to watching the show. No cliffhanger, no willingness to watch the next episode.

Although I do admit being somewhat of a Devils Advocate when it comes to Hero vs. Villain type of shows. I want to root for the opposite for once, just to make things interesting. Peter was too much of the perfect White Knight in Shining Armor who saves the day while trumpet fanfare plays in the background kind of character. Now, he's been toned down to be more of an equal among the rest of the Heroes.

The reason why I like Sylar so much more is because of his complexity. Peter's a pretty simple. Pure hearted guy who always wanted to be a hero, got his ability(abilities), became a hero, saved the day, saved the world, yada yada. On the other hand, Sylar's origin is much more twisted and less cut-and-paste. Used to be a simple watch repair guy, wanted to be special, became consumed with his hunger, conflict between his inner hero and inner villain, villain side won. I think I derailed my train of thought but hope my point gets through.

Borrowing a line from Sylar: I hate [stereotypical] heroes.

But I still love Hiro because although he's a clear hero, he makes us all laugh while he does his Hero stuff.

[serojay]

I've always said that taking Peter's powers away was a mistake.

He was the Sylar for the good guys.
And the ying to Sylar's yang.

It kept things balanced.

I get that having Sylar as powerful as he is gives the fight against him a much more intense feeling due to him being so much stronger than anyone, but they could have let Peter kick his ass properly at least once. 

Peter was special amongst the special, but now he's just another face in the crowd.

[kpatrik]

I don't think that Peter would be able to win a showdown with Sylar even if he had his full powers. The first time they faced off Peter ended up dying. The second time Peter had no powers but then neither did Sylar (thanks to the Haitian) and Peter didn't shoot Sylar, although he could have. I don't think Peter is capable of defeating Sylar, with or without his powers. But this doesn't mean Sylar is unbeatable either. The right person at the right time with the right power could easily take Sylar out. Here are some examples of people who have taken or could take out Sylar:
Hiro could stab him with a sword using Time-Stop (again!) And there wouldn't be anybody to drag him into a Sewer to save him either.
The Haitian managed to nullify his powers long enough for someone to shoot him down (someone besides Peter) twice.
Eden (or whatever her name was) used her power of suggestion to make him fall asleep.
Elle's power was very effective against him. He had her down and was starting to cut her head open when she managed to knock him out long enough for Noah to drag him into a cell.
Matt's power could incapacitate him
and don't forget that a powerless Mohinder managed to ambush Sylar with a cup of tea!

[Deceit]

I've always said that taking Peter's powers away was a mistake.

He was the Sylar for the good guys.
And the ying to Sylar's yang.

It kept things balanced.

I get that having Sylar as powerful as he is gives the fight against him a much more intense feeling due to him being so much stronger than anyone, but they could have let Peter kick his ass properly at least once. 

Peter was special amongst the special, but now he's just another face in the crowd.

That's kind of the point though, isn't it? The show is called "Heroes" not "Peter vs. Sylar". I would argue that it doesn't keep things balanced because it leaves everyone else out. Balancing an extremely powerful villain with an extremely powerful hero neglects pretty much every other character in the series. It's the reason I really disliked the endings to the first two seasons. Everything is put on Peter's shoulders, and every other main character is just back-up so he can save the world. Even X-Men at it's core, despite strong single-character arcs, is a series with a team of strong heroes against a villain that's much more powerful than any one hero.

[serojay]

I've always said that taking Peter's powers away was a mistake.

He was the Sylar for the good guys.
And the ying to Sylar's yang.

It kept things balanced.

I get that having Sylar as powerful as he is gives the fight against him a much more intense feeling due to him being so much stronger than anyone, but they could have let Peter kick his ass properly at least once. 

Peter was special amongst the special, but now he's just another face in the crowd.

That's kind of the point though, isn't it? The show is called "Heroes" not "Peter vs. Sylar". I would argue that it doesn't keep things balanced because it leaves everyone else out. Balancing an extremely powerful villain with an extremely powerful hero neglects pretty much every other character in the series. It's the reason I really disliked the endings to the first two seasons. Everything is put on Peter's shoulders, and every other main character is just back-up so he can save the world. Even X-Men at it's core, despite strong single-character arcs, is a series with a team of strong heroes against a villain that's much more powerful than any one hero.

I understand what you're saying but everyone wouldn't be left out due to Sylar not being the only Villain.
Look at your X-men example... Wolverine and Sabertooth. Iceman and Pyro. Etc
Everything has a balance and I believed Peter was Sylars.

I agree however that Peter should take a back seat to the bigger plot events and give the others a chance to do something. And Sylar should also. That's why I miss Adam so much in the show, we need more Villians taking centre stage.

[Deceit]

May have to take Peter off the Nerf list, depending on volume 5. One would think he only stole Sylar's shapeshifting ability, considering he didn't heal (at least not that I noticed). This show does not need another overpowered character. Actually, what this show does not need is Peter being overpowered again.

[blkcaeser35]

The whole idea of Peter losing all his power has made the show better is ridiculous! The writers should have made him a stronger fighter and let him finally figure out how to use all his powers. That's what is so frustating about hero vs villains shows or movies the heroes spend the whole show trying to find them selves while the villain already has things figured out. This whole concept is played out. Please give Peter his powers back and let him kick some butt. The reason everybody likes Sylar is because the writers don't cripple him with the omg i have a power and i can't figure out how to use it until I get beat up alot. I love super hero shows but it's always the same formula.

[Deceit]

The reason everybody likes Sylar is because the writers don't cripple him with the omg i have a power and i can't figure out how to use it until I get beat up alot.

Everyone likes Sylar because he's the only overpowered character. What's the point of having 12 main characters when one of them (Peter) can nearly defeat the villain on his own? We've had two seasons of Peter being the savior, and look what happened. The only two characters that really developed were Peter and Sylar. Not to sound rude, but the only thing (to me) that's played out is Sylar vs. Peter. It's happened every season. Is anyone else going to fight Sylar, or do we have to wait for the messiah to show up again...and again...and again.

[HiroesFan]

I liked over-powered peter, even though it did leave many other characters out of the frame. still, they had their own problems, while Peter decided, that Sylar will be his problem.

Still, while everyone's waiting for a real showdown somewhere else than behind closed doors, I just keep my thumbs up for a showdown called "Sylar vs. all the heroes". And a real one this time.
And with real i mean that after everyone else have been thrown to a wall peter stands alone, saving the world.

But then again, imagine if Mama Petrelli or Micah would save the world. Would it be cool enough?

I'm just glad that Pete has his cool hair back, at least almost. 

[Grim Reapster]

The reason everybody likes Sylar is because the writers don't cripple him with the omg i have a power and i can't figure out how to use it until I get beat up alot.

Everyone likes Sylar because he's the only overpowered character. What's the point of having 12 main characters when one of them (Peter) can nearly defeat the villain on his own? We've had two seasons of Peter being the savior, and look what happened. The only two characters that really developed were Peter and Sylar. Not to sound rude, but the only thing (to me) that's played out is Sylar vs. Peter. It's happened every season. Is anyone else going to fight Sylar, or do we have to wait for the messiah to show up again...and again...and again.

OK, first of all, not everyone likes Sylar. I never have. Not since they first revealed who he was. He was much more interesting to me before they introduced us to Gabriel Gray. And his being over-powered was only tolerable to me because there was someone on the show to counterbalance him.

You've made it clear, post after post, that you don't like Peter. But for the most part your criticisms of him could just as easily be applied to Sylar. He's ridiculously over powered, and for three seasons now, the show has revolved around him. He's bad, he's good, he's just misunderstood....

Even when he was "Nerfed" in season two, they spent an awful lot of time following his quest to regain his powers. Which, by the way, if Sylar's three season killing spree really was motivated by his 'Hunger', then why did he spend all of season two trying to get his powers back? If he was such a slave to his IA, then it should have been a relief to have it gone. And it wasn't self preservation that drove him, because he didn't know that he had a fatal virus until the end of the season.

You say that Sylar vs. Peter is played out? I say it's just Sylar that's played out. I'd be fine with them leaving Peter as is, if they just got rid of Sylar. I'd even be happy to see Peter die, if he took Sylar out with him.

And Peter hasn't been the savior for two seasons. It was actually Nathan that saved New York in season one...from Peter. In season two he almost wiped out most of humanity because he's ridiculously gullible. Except for saving Claire in season one, stopping Sylar was actually the first time he really succeeded at being the Hero.

Though I agree that they do need to spend more time with the other characters. Maybe they do need to retire both Peter and Sylar. Most of the characters are heroic in their own way, and It can't be that hard to come up with a new villain.

They're going to have to find someone new sooner or later. After all, what are they going to do when Zachery Quinto's movie career takes off....cancel the show....